Interview with James Horak 16th September 2007 for Centro de Ufologia Brasileiro.
|Milton Frank Jr.|
Questions by Milton Frank and Cristiano Ramos
Asked by Milton and Frank Ramos Cristiano
Translation to Portuguese by Milton Frank
1 - Why did you start to study and search UFOlogy? Have you ever seen an UFO? If so, how was your experience?
Rather, I was thrust into UFOlogy at the age of four while on a trip to Texas from New Mexico when we were moving. We had my mother's brother and her first cousin with us and I was standing on the seat in the back with the cousin. It was night and I had asked him about what appeared to be a blue flame shooting out of the ground. Mistaking that for the lights at a railroad crossing on the other side of the road, he had begun to explain. Before I could point out where I was actually looking his face froze and I realized we were being bathed in white light.
The next thing I recall is my mother rigid and floating out the front side window. Then an EBE poked his head into a back side window and saw me. He seemed arrested by my appearance and the black pools of his eyes brought on in me a revulsion I can't describe. Too, I can't explain what happened next, but both his hands went up to his head and he darted away screaming. A moment later I heard clunking noises and experienced the illusion of sparks flying.
My next recollection is of a nurse coaxing me out of the car and taking me to one of several white four-cornered tents that had red crosses on them. Inside were men and women in white gowns starting to put masks over their faces. I was put on a table and something was put in my head.
All my childhood, any mention of this experience would bring a pat response from my mother, "you were in an accident and it made you afraid of cars". I once spoke to my uncle and his response was, "Margaret (my mother) would kill me if I told you".
Throughout my life have been UFO experiences, contact and communication with a MIB I can name, an UFO event and my awareness of numerous "follow-up" experiences practiced on me subsequent to the attempted abduction.
2 - What have you been researching? What have you been working on UFO phenomena nowadays?
I am refining the last of an expression of a theory of mine. I call it the Theory of the Fusion of Metals. It is both an alternative way of looking at the elements and combines that with the allowance of an additional factor in the configuring of an astral body's gravity. Along with volume and density is figured the effects of the star system in which the body is located to achieve gravity wave. Utilizing attenuation to gravity wave, such precision to navigation can be achieved homing to its location from any point in space can provide the most efficient routing. I believe it possible to derive drive as well through this attenuation on the basis of how might bodies in space sharing the same gravity wave conduit through what the ancients called aether, a term that might express better some matter we now express as element when in reality they are the same elementally but of different form. Find what accelerates change between the two and expect it to perform as drive when alternated.
I also at present am working on a way to formulate statistical analysis of UFO sightings along factors shared in common to provide for the utilization of what I feel is science's best tool in dealing with causal possibility. What can help overcome the unwillingness of so many ufologists today to think outside the box. That tool, of course, is probability. It is my contention that enough data already exits to start constructing models to project explanations along probability curves, no matter how incredible those explanations might seem to some.
3- What is your opinion about Abductions? Do you believe it is possible?
Invasive abductions are not the conduct of an advanced species upon another that can be justified on any but the most preliminary basis. That there appears to be continued employment of the abduction scenario by the EBE (important to distinguish the EBE from ET) and from my own personal experience, as well as the early-on USAF classification of EBE in its nomenclature, in doing this repeatedly, two possibilities come to mind. Either EBEs are aberrant or their scenario is being enacted by earth-based humans under their own agenda.
As far as preliminary probes, like one in a Soviet city's public park a number of years back and that in your own neighborhood, on a remote island that continued over the course of weeks, the bizarre natures of both indicate an entirely different scenario. Mostly though these do not reoccur as do similar bizarre "probes" past and present. More forgivable, they signify an exploring species simply trying to discover the nature of what they've found, neither to exploit it nor to contaminate it in any way. That cannot be said, however, for the Extra Biological Entities... nor for their possible earth-based counterparts. Therefore it is vital to make the same discernment for probing as distinguished from abductions as it is, extraterrestrials as distinguished from EBEs.
4- What are your opinion about the dimensions theory? Do you think it can be possible?
If one grants that time travel is possible, now or ever, then it is here now. That realization escapes many but it is as inevitable to truth as it is to its potential to impact on interdimensional aspects of both travel and alteration of matter. Somewhere along this line of potential chaos someone must step in and prevent what would promise to become total dissolution of the universe. Just as someone must be at the helm in protecting any planet of the lineage to accommodate the process of life to intelligence from its chaotic fusion star's discharges like our sun's coronal mass ejections.
To this effect it would be an inevitable truth that clearly any emerging planet-wide culture approaching specific technological advances would have to be policed. It is, if not apparent, and then likely, we have reached this nexus point.
5- What are the most important points that an UFOlogy searcher has to learn to do a good job?
The researcher needs to obtain competence with several disciplines. The searcher, however, of sometimes greater importance, has the luxury of stepping out of the box more, in the tradition of both explorer and in possession of a greater allowance for possibility.
It is the searcher most likely to have close contacts and it is the searcher most likely to be less limited in perception to what he finds. The inexplicability of any anomalous phenomena reverses the scientific approach because the anomaly by definition has already alluded the conventional approach to resolution.
In rare instances men like Hynek and Keel come along who bring the best of both worlds. That is why the marks they have left on the entire field of UFOlogy have been so respected and enduring.
6- What would you say to a young man that intends to be an UFOlogy searcher?
It doesn't hurt to acquire methodology but good overview (seeming inobtainable by many in this arena) requires actual diligence in the field. Else you find yourself in the all-too-human loop of, "whether or not you believe" and/or "what you can say to defend what you think you believe any particular moment. That kind of ambivalence is causing the whole community of ufologists in the United States to engage in fruitless never-ending and pointless debate.
Frankly I would say, do what is necessary for you yourself to resolve the issue beforehand, before you spend time and resource further on something you are uncertain is worthwhile for a better commitment. If you have the diligence, most anyone can find enough evidence to make up their own mind, one way or the other. If you do decide this phenomenon is real, in the sense of vital and deserving of you, establish a moral core of your own since so many are going to start working against you that will allow you to prosper in your goals in the face of unhealthy cynicism and debunking.
Look at healthy cynicism appreciatively. The people with it are honest, sincere and making effort. They are your friends. Show them what you have and wait on them to decide for themselves. Never point to anything as a smoking gun or final solution. No such thing exists.
Maybe not now, but later, out of regard for the way you handled yourself, they will become closer to the openness you have.
7- What is the most important UFO case you've been involved with? Does it give you a hard time? Was it difficult to research?
Just before Christmas in 1962, Sasebo Harbor, Japan, USS Kennebec. Early morning a series of lights came over the mountains and formed a V directly over the well deck of this tanker. The following day many of the deck hands working late into the morning from the previous day had odd accidents, some nervous breakdowns. I was one and was sent ashore to a base hospital, and then to the USN Hospital at Akuska. While at Akuska I was followed by a military intelligence officer each time we went on liberty. So much so he and I became friends and I retain his picture, name and address to this day. It was understood that I would be given a medical discharge while I was still at Sasebo. The doctor there had surmised that the captain, W. H. House, had "gone over the edge" placing his men in jeopardy simply to win ratings for the ship (hash marks to go on the stack.) I said nothing about the lights until I was asked directly about them. Then I recounted that, since they appeared to be doing things that they couldn't have (been doing). I must have been suffering from overwork and not eating for an entire day. That was my story all along and everyone found that very pleasing, but it was hardly the whole truth.
But it didn't end there.
8- Have you ever thought that UFO phenomenon could not be from the space? How do you feel dealing with UFO phenomenon?
Some UFO phenomenon are certainly based from earth. Some are experimental and some are manifested residually from manifestations. I believe are deep within earth's crust like the Marfa Lights. One clue I know about was my great uncle's discovery, he called it the Moon Shaft, in the Tatra Mountains of Eastern Europe. If you wish to read his article it can be found online. Although access to that seems to come and go.
Although the UFO phenomenon seems to have found me, I would have found it in short order had it not. It amazes me how anyone can come to terms with their life not investigating to their ability's worth, just what this is.
9- What is your opinion about UFOlogy future?
Although the time scale is uncertain, the intent of those that suppress and deny the truth about UFO event and its evidence are the very ones that hold NATO and the United Nations tightly within their fists. The people that are the inner-most core of The Council of Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission, the people that are orchestrating their New World Order. To do such a thing they require the total absence of any alternative model for the people of the earth to make comparison... indeed the necessity of something like creating a perception of alien threat has been discussed by them repeatedly as a way of better instrumenting their image as peacekeeper and savior.
They are remiss to think their plans anymore than counter-evolutionary and that the activities already tied to them will simply be ignored. Their sale of a long term feudal state based on an undisclosed social contract the whole world is expected to abide will not long be abided. And when it’s over, so will be the secrecy that has kept us all from the unfolding of realities more limitless than the imagination.
10- After all these years researching, what is your best definition to the UFO phenomenon? What did you learn from it?
The UFO phenomenon has no beginning, no end. It is the perception of what travels upon its way close to our world, perhaps on to others. Confounded by its mystery, we are left in limbo, but there is a way out. Begin that way out by being unafraid of confronting what you know in terms understandable to those that would challenge you out of either ignorance or fear.
11- I really would like you to leave a message to The Brazilian UFOlogy Center. Right now we have more than 38.800 members and they really would like to hear what you have to say to them
Victor Hugo, Les Miserables "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...." Indeed, you are children of the Universe. Upon your shoulders rests your right to claim your role in it. Never was there more need for courage and forth-rightness. Have faith in your pursuits and realize the importance of your endeavors.
I say this to you, people of Brazil, nation fresh to idea and not yet slave to mindset. Don't let what has happened in my country happen in yours.
When Dr. Norman Bergrun wrote, Ringmakers of Saturn, his colleagues, other scientists at NASA and JPL, did not scoff or ridicule him, it was ufologists. Yet his data came from raw images that his very work at JPL so entitled him to study. The EMVs, as he came to call them, have been observed countless times throughout our solar system and in sizes from that of a football field to that of the North American continent.
Their role in the scheme of things may be more significant to our work than any other single context. But how would one know if one doesn't read the book? I've yet to find an ufologist that has...yet all have an opinion. You can guess what that is.
Don't be like this. You will got nothing done...indeed you will be in constant threat of losing any ground you make. I have seen that happen over and over again, and not just in UFOlogy, but other anomaly research.
Always know there is nothing of importance anywhere that would mock or belittle sincere and honest pursuit of truth. If I can do one thing I would always treasure it would be to encourage among others that one conviction.
My heart is with you,
James C. Horak (JCH)